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Interview: NOTIS PAPADOPOULOS
We met in a nice restaurant in Koukaki, in mid-December. The news reports were playing “high” on the possibility of a mufti election in Thrace, the New Democracy conference and the unprecedented bad weather in the US. What bad weather? In Athens, there was bright sunshine and autumn temperatures. My light mood quickly turned heavy when we started discussing the future of the country. Maria Efthymiou was clear and with a specific rationale: the deep and prolonged crisis we are going through has not taught us any substantial lesson. The majority of the Greek people do not want to change, so any improvement will be temporary. It will not allow us to make the leap that is needed. If the dysfunction, the rot and the dissolution continue, some of our enviable neighbors will dismember us and absorb us. Hearing such a dark assessment from a serious man who rarely speaks to the media, but has dedicated his life to the study of History, gives you chills.

– But don't you believe that little by little things will get better, especially if there is political leadership in the country that will enhance development?
– With the minds and mentality we have today, we will not survive. For a period of a few years, more capital may come to Greece and there will be a recovery. However, it will be temporary. And we will sink again – if we do the same. Our entry into the European Union gave us a great opportunity, thirty-five years ago. However, instead of matching up with advanced states and changing our dysfunctional points, we were only interested in money. However, rich and well-governed countries did not become rich and well-governed because they suddenly found money. If that were the case, Nigeria – which has very rich subsoil – would be one of the richest and best-governed countries in the world. It is not a matter of wealth. It is how you perceive yourself and your function within the society to which you belong. It is a deeply political issue, that is. And it concerns all of society, every citizen.

– Yes, but we have come a long way in the last 30 years…
– Of course. If you look at Greece in '49, when the Civil War ended, it was a country scorched from top to bottom. The difference in image with today is enormous. Since the '60s, the country had already improved a lot. And, of course, after '80, a lot of money came from the EU. Unpaid money. Which was given to us to build infrastructure, so that we could launch our economy and converge towards the European level. We managed the thing the way we managed it. Without seriousness and confrontation with the future. So, the crisis came. And I see around us countries that were at the bottom climbing up, while we, who were higher, are constantly falling. In all areas. And how can we not fall, when we do not want to see ourselves and change. We have become addicted to being babies. For what we suffer, others are always to blame and never us. This is how we are raised in our families, where we expect our parents to support us until our old age. We do the same with the countries with which we participate in broader coalitions. We expect them to babysit us as well. Constantly. And to be, of course, always indignant. Being “indignant” is a constant of ours. We have an inclination towards it.

– How will we grow up and become stronger?
– To become stronger, we should talk to ourselves and walk through our lives with honesty. And not resort to the audacity we show, that is, looking at how much we can grab, cursing and blaming others for our own mistakes and shortcomings. It is not possible for a society to walk with such indignity. We must become brave. Brave is the one who takes responsibility for his actions and decides to rely on his own strength to move forward. To maintain a manly attitude, as we used to say. But I don't think that will happen. I am very afraid that our prolonged weakness will give room for us to be absorbed by other forces.

– Do you mean in a violent way?
– Part of this evolution will inevitably be violent. And it will lead us, gradually, to lose our cultural identity – which, moreover, we ourselves renounce and for which we are indifferent. Like, for example, our language.

– Do you think Turkey can play this role?
– Turkey is a big player. And therefore, extremely dangerous. However, it will not be Germany that will absorb us, as some say.

– Yes, but I don't see many people coming out and emphasizing that we need to change and get serious.- It has been said in all tones, by many and for a long time. However, we do not hear this. We like to live in conspiracy theories: that everyone is plotting against us, that they envy us for our beautiful climate, our relaxed life, our minerals, etc. To this day, a third of the Greek people believe that they are being tricked. So what are we discussing? From what basis do we start?

If you label yourself "leftist," whatever you do becomes tolerated.Maria Efthymiou believes that the country continues to struggle today and is unable to overcome the division and wounds of the Civil War. The Civil War may have ended in '49, but politically, the division between the Left and the Right continues, with mutations, to this day. In fact, during the decades that have passed, a reversal has occurred: the losers of the Civil War emerged, through the popular narrative, as its moral victors. In the subconscious of a significant part of the Greek people, the losers of the Civil War were classified as "the lads", the "socially sensitive", the "progressives". Thus, in the Post-Coalition period, the structure of society revolved subtly around this narrative. Each presented himself as a "leftist", therefore as a "victim" of the respective "bad government" (which he himself, however, elected and encouraged to do evil), in order to demand, under ideological cover, other benefits and other favors that he was not entitled to or entitled to.

As she states in her latest book ("Only a Few Kilometers. Stories about History", written in collaboration with Makis Provatas and published in November by Patakis Publications), with the restoration of Democracy, instead of seizing the opportunity to restart our society on a new, healthy basis, we sank into the diseases of the past and saw ourselves in confrontation with previous eras. And as these previous eras contained much and often hypocritical "patriotic" discourse, we decided that patriotism – that is, hurting and caring for your country, protecting your society and the public good – is "reactionary" and "fascist", while destroying and vandalizing its public property is "progressive".

He notes, in our discussion, that, as José Saramago says, leftist discourse today, instead of defending the truth, has become the pool of Siloam for covering up all misery. If you get ahead of yourself and put the label of "leftist", whatever you do is tolerated by a society that is afraid to denounce evil lest it befall it and be characterized, by the fascists with the label "leftist", as "fascist" and "reactionary".

And he brings up the Marfin tragedy as an example. The three dead – one woman, of whom was, in fact, pregnant – who were burned in the center of Athens by groups of “outraged leftists”, who heroically shouted “burn, burn, go to g…ge”. Because they were working, while they should, in the opinion of the “leftist” demonstrators, be on strike. As if the strike is mandatory. And we don’t talk about these three people at all because they were burned by “leftists”. There is no mention. Nowhere. Not even a plaque outside the building where they were burned alive. On the contrary, we remember and honor the singer Pavlos Fyssas who was stabbed in Piraeus by some criminal fascist groups – and we do the right thing. We remember him, however, and honor him because the murderers were fascists and not leftists. However, this morality cannot, as a society, take us anywhere.

Low requirements

Since 2006, Maria Efthymiou has given thousands of lectures throughout Greece, teaching World and Greek History. Tens of thousands of people have come to these classes to better interpret what is happening around them.

Regarding the issue of education, he says that a climate of low demands has been created in society. In schools, all students, one way or another, get A in elementary school and 19 or 20 in high school, whether they work or not, whether they study or not. We have an incredible percentage of excellent students worldwide. No comparison with the past. The elementary school graduate from the neighborhood school 40 years ago knew much more than many high school graduates today. After 1980, this climate was decided in order to "not burden the souls of the children". This is also another manifestation of our supposedly "left" side. That is, of nothing.

The meeting
Maria Efthymiou chose the restaurant “I Fabrika tou Efrosynou” – she likes it and it is close to her home in Koukaki. We started the meal with a delicious pumpkin velouté soup and shared a delicious portion of ytsli politiko (bulgur stuffed with minced meat, pine nuts and spices) and a colorful carrot salad with parsley, hazelnuts, almonds, lemon, apple cider vinegar and sage loukoumid. We drank water and not alcohol, because we were both going straight to work. They treated us to a warm apple pie. The bill was 35,90 euros.

Its stations
1955
He was born in Larissa.
1962
She settled with her family in Athens.
1977
He received a degree from the Department of History and Archaeology of the University of Athens.
1981
He began teaching History at the Department of History and Archaeology of the University of Athens.
1982
Her first son was born.
1984
She completed her doctorate at the Sorbonne. Her second son was born.
2013
He received the Award for Outstanding University Teaching in memory of V. Xanthopoulos – St. Pnevmatikos.